Re: [robocup-rescue-s] Complaint

From: <a_fathi@ce.sharif.edu>
Date: Tue 09 May 2006 - 11:59:35 GMT

Dear Friends,

Firstly I guess both Babak and Arash are assuming we did reverse
engineering to write our AmbulanceTeam agents in Impossibles. I'm here to
inform anyone thinking like this, that our estimation routine was
extracted from some gauges and logs on different civilians in different
runs. We never even read the source code of MiscSimulator but every one
else working in other teams like Caspian and S.O.S had completely read the
source code. We can completely describe our method for every one
interested. Something more enthusiastic is we can compare different
estimations in different teams. Currently I am working with Mr. Tavakkoli
in Poseidon who was one of the implementors of S.O.S's AmbulanceTeams and
he thinks their estimation is better than Imposssible's. But what made
Impossibles to be Impossibles was the algorithm AmbualnceAgents were using
to implement coalition in different situations.
Also we can explain this algorithm for you too if you want. I think what
you do is a kind of dispute without confidence about what really happened.

I completely agree with Babak in the definition of RoboCup. The solutions
should be MultiAgent and AI solutions. Assume a team is using
Reinforcement Learning for estimating the death time of a civilian. We
think it needs 5,000 runs, each run at least 300 seconds. we think it will
take a month to have a estimation with 90% precision for the death time of
civilians. Now if you are going to change the HP and Damage just a month
before competitions guess what will happpen. Yes it is 4 months that the
change is happened. As we do not read the source code of the kernel we
didn't know it has chnged but as you do you knew. Mr Saboorian announced
it just two weeks ago.

Me, Mr Tavakkoli, Ms Mostafazadeh and my friends in Impossibles think the
strategy AmbulanceTeams are using currently needs to completely change.
Yes Arash, estimation function won't change many but you have no accurate
estimation anymore. Then you should change your priority parameters for
civilians and every thing will completely change. The current algorithm is
emphesizing on the acurate estimation but without it is nothing.

Sincerely Yours,
Alireza Fathi.
Team Leader of Poseidon Rescue simulation Team,
Previous Team Member of Impossibles.

On Tue, May 9, 2006 4:38 pm, Babak BehSaz wrote:
> Dear Alireza,
>
>
> I have two comments about your complaint.
> First, I agree that technical committee should release
> the final package sooner than this (sooner than release time of package
> 0.49a). I think technical
> committee should try to solve this problem for next years. I think it will
> promote quality of competitions dramatically. But, I think Arash's argument
> is logical, why don't you complained when package 0.49a was released? This
> change was announced four months ago and now, I think complaining is not
> acceptable. Second, let's look what is RoboCup! According to
> explanation of Recoup official site, "RoboCup is an international joint
> project to promote AI, robotics, and related field. It is an attempt to
> foster AI and intelligent robotics research by providing a standard problem
> where wide range of technologies can be integrated and examined".
> Therefore, we technically
> expect that team's efforts promote AI. Thus, technical committee can assume
> teams designed their agent according to the concepts and methods of AI.
> With this assumption, recent changes made by technical
> committee doesn't have any problems (and in my opinion, they should try to
> apply such changes in entire package more and more). They just changed the
> precision of data that will be received by agents, not even model of
> generation of these data. Hence, it is obvious that if your team uses an
> AI method, you will
> not confront any problems. Otherwise, it is your problem that you are not
> selected a method consistent with the definition of RoboCup. Look at most
> of current teams' methods, THESE METHODS IS DISASTROUS, not recent
> changes. I regret to see that our league made a very few contributions to
> promotion of AI, of course if made any (our teams are only using simple
> methods to obtain better results without even trying to use a more
> scientific approach!).
>
> Best Regards,
> Babak Behsaz
> Previous S.O.S. Member
>
>
>
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Received on Tue May 09 15:28:58 2006

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