Re: [robocup-rescue-s] Complaint

Dear All,
In the previous years competition Impossibles team have implemented a method
to increase the accuracy of the civilian lifetime estimation. If you watch
any logs from the previous year I am sure that you can realize the method as
their signature.
Now
1- I don't agree nor disagree with any comments. I dont know the things in
detail. I just want to emphasize that a good estimator is one thing a good
exploration strategy is another thing.
2- I dont say other teams didnt implement such methods I just remember
Impossibles was using a strategy which our team did not implemented. May be
other teams also implemented such strategies but I was interested in
Impossibles because of their success.
3- I remember an email about the change very long ago but I could have time
to retrain my algorithm however I believe that it will handle the case since
it will say hurryup to my agents. I think the only problem is receiving 0
for hp under 500 which the civilian is alive but the agents may sense it as
dead...
4- I think the problem is not change of sense, the new comuniction
protocoll. I had to reimplement the tools/viewers we before and try to run
kernel at start and lost almost two month (I tried to port the code base to
rescuecore inthe mean time) upto the kernel 0.49.3 is released. Now I
develop on 0.48 and it will be a big surprise for me to run the agents on
the new version. I cant use 0.49.5 because the civilian simulator uses to
much CPU on my machine...

Best regards...

On 5/9/06, a_fathi@ce.sharif.edu <a_fathi@ce.sharif.edu> wrote:
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> Firstly I guess both Babak and Arash are assuming we did reverse
> engineering to write our AmbulanceTeam agents in Impossibles. I'm here to
> inform anyone thinking like this, that our estimation routine was
> extracted from some gauges and logs on different civilians in different
> runs. We never even read the source code of MiscSimulator but every one
> else working in other teams like Caspian and S.O.S had completely read the
> source code. We can completely describe our method for every one
> interested. Something more enthusiastic is we can compare different
> estimations in different teams. Currently I am working with Mr. Tavakkoli
> in Poseidon who was one of the implementors of S.O.S's AmbulanceTeams and
> he thinks their estimation is better than Imposssible's. But what made
> Impossibles to be Impossibles was the algorithm AmbualnceAgents were using
> to implement coalition in different situations.
> Also we can explain this algorithm for you too if you want. I think what
> you do is a kind of dispute without confidence about what really happened.
>
> I completely agree with Babak in the definition of RoboCup. The solutions
> should be MultiAgent and AI solutions. Assume a team is using
> Reinforcement Learning for estimating the death time of a civilian. We
> think it needs 5,000 runs, each run at least 300 seconds. we think it will
> take a month to have a estimation with 90% precision for the death time of
> civilians. Now if you are going to change the HP and Damage just a month
> before competitions guess what will happpen. Yes it is 4 months that the
> change is happened. As we do not read the source code of the kernel we
> didn't know it has chnged but as you do you knew. Mr Saboorian announced
> it just two weeks ago.
>
> Me, Mr Tavakkoli, Ms Mostafazadeh and my friends in Impossibles think the
> strategy AmbulanceTeams are using currently needs to completely change.
> Yes Arash, estimation function won't change many but you have no accurate
> estimation anymore. Then you should change your priority parameters for
> civilians and every thing will completely change. The current algorithm is
> emphesizing on the acurate estimation but without it is nothing.
>
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
> Alireza Fathi.
> Team Leader of Poseidon Rescue simulation Team,
> Previous Team Member of Impossibles.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 9, 2006 4:38 pm, Babak BehSaz wrote:
> > Dear Alireza,
> >
> >
> > I have two comments about your complaint.
> > First, I agree that technical committee should release
> > the final package sooner than this (sooner than release time of package
> > 0.49a). I think technical
> > committee should try to solve this problem for next years. I think it
> will
> > promote quality of competitions dramatically. But, I think Arash's
> argument
> > is logical, why don't you complained when package 0.49a was released?
> This
> > change was announced four months ago and now, I think complaining is
> not
> > acceptable. Second, let's look what is RoboCup! According to
> > explanation of Recoup official site, "RoboCup is an international joint
> > project to promote AI, robotics, and related field. It is an attempt to
> > foster AI and intelligent robotics research by providing a standard
> problem
> > where wide range of technologies can be integrated and examined".
> > Therefore, we technically
> > expect that team's efforts promote AI. Thus, technical committee can
> assume
> > teams designed their agent according to the concepts and methods of AI.
> > With this assumption, recent changes made by technical
> > committee doesn't have any problems (and in my opinion, they should try
> to
> > apply such changes in entire package more and more). They just changed
> the
> > precision of data that will be received by agents, not even model of
> > generation of these data. Hence, it is obvious that if your team uses an
> > AI method, you will
> > not confront any problems. Otherwise, it is your problem that you are
> not
> > selected a method consistent with the definition of RoboCup. Look at
> most
> > of current teams' methods, THESE METHODS IS DISASTROUS, not recent
> > changes. I regret to see that our league made a very few contributions
> to
> > promotion of AI, of course if made any (our teams are only using simple
> > methods to obtain better results without even trying to use a more
> > scientific approach!).
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Babak Behsaz
> > Previous S.O.S. Member
> >
> >
> >
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Received on Tue May 09 15:54:50 2006